Asking police to search pupils' bags 'impractical'

Wales' education minister has been criticised after she said teachers can call on police officers to search pupils' bags if they do not want to do it themselves.

Lynne Neagle said there were lessons to be learned following the "terrible incident" at a Carmarthenshire school in which two teachers and a pupil were stabbed.

A teenager was found guilty of three counts of attempted murder, leading to calls for improved safety measures in schools, such as security guards.

Dafydd Llywelyn, police commissioner for Dyfed-Powys, said it would be "completely impractical" for the police to conduct bag searches every time they are needed.

A union said it would not be a productive use of police time to conduct daily bag searches, and called for pupils carrying weapons to be automatically excluded.

Responding to calls for heightened security in schools, Neagle said this may not be an option school staff were comfortable with, adding she would be holding a "behaviour summit" to tackle the "complex" problems facing schools.

This comes as it emerged on Wednesday police received a report of a knife found in a bag at Bryntirion Comprehensive School in Bridgend, after an altercation between two year 10 pupils on Friday, 31 January.

South Wales Police said a 15-year-old boy was "assisting officers with their inquiries". A spokesman for the school said the safety and wellbeing of pupils remained their top priority.

Neagle told the told Radio Wales Breakfast: "There's been a culture shift and what I'm seeing is a whole range of societal problems are now playing out in schools, and schools are having to do things that they didn't have to before.

"I'm hearing a lot from schools about behavioural issues [and] we are seeing more and more young people with complex mental health issues.

"One of the things we are doing as a government is I'm bringing together all partners in Wales later this year, as soon as we can, to have a behaviour summit where we're going to look at these issues... I want that to be really action focussed, so we come out with an action plan."

Following the verdict, Fiona Elias - one of the teachers who was attacked at Ysgol Dyffryn Aman in April 2024 - said she wanted to meet the local authority and Welsh government to make sure no-one else went through "the nightmare I have endured".

Neagle said it was important that lessons were learnt from what had happened. "Now that the trial is over, we need to understand what happened in the run-up to this case and we are talking with the local authority about how we best learn the lesson from that," she said.

During the trial, it was revealed the teenager responsible for the attack regularly took a knife to school, until her father began checking her bag each morning.

Cefin Campbell MS, whose brother works at the school and tried to restrain the girl, previously said employing security guards to assist with bag checks could be an option for schools to consider.

"I don't think the onus should have been put on the father to check the bag every day," he said.

Responding to the suggestion, Neagle said: "I'm not sure lots of teachers would be comfortable with security guards in schools. And if they don't want to [check pupils' bags] they can ask the police to do that, the guidance is very clear."

She added "really strong guidance on the carrying of knives" was already in place in Wales, with schools permitted to search pupils for offensive weapons or permanently exclude pupils if they have a knife in school.

"It is an exceptional thing to be carrying a knife in school and these incidents are, thankfully, very rare," she said.

"I want teachers to have the tools that they need to be able to deal with these issues in schools, but it can't all be on teachers."

The latest guidance on searching for weapons in schools was produced in 2013, almost 12 years ago.

It strongly advises schools "not to search pupils where resistance is expected, but rather to call the police".

Neil Butler, the national officer of the teaching union NASUWT, said the recent spate of knife attacks in schools "must be a call to action for the Welsh government".

The guidance from 2013 "needs updating", he said, adding: "Teachers are worried about what they have the power to do when they are faced with violence in schools."

A bag search can endanger a teacher's safety, he said, and can only search pupils when authorised by a school head. "This could all mean it needs to be done by a security professional," he said, adding schools do not have funds to employ them.

Butler called for "stronger deterrence", calling for carrying a weapon to "result in automatic exclusion".

"After all, it is a criminal offence and should be dealt with robustly," he said.

In the Senedd on Wednesday, Conservative Senedd education spokeswoman Natasha Asghar said Welsh government guidance said carrying a weapon "no longer applies as a reason for exclusion" in schools.

Education Secretary Lynne Neagle suggested this was incorrect.

"Can I just be clear that our exclusions guidance does say the schools can exclude a pupil permanently for carrying a weapon," she said.

Plaid Cymru Police and Commissioner for Dyfed Powys, Dafydd Llywelyn, said Neagle's comments about the police were "highly ironic" when the Welsh government axed funding for a school visit programme.

School Beat Cymru allowed for 68 officers across Wales' four forces to deliver lessons on substance abuse, safety, safeguarding and behaviour. The scheme was retained in Dyfed Powys.

"If there was a particular issue in a particular school, we would have the capacity to do that on an ad hoc basis," he said.

"But it's completely impractical to think that every time there's a need for a bag search, that the police would be seen as the ones who do that."

Carmarthenshire council said it had referred the Ammanford incident to the regional safeguarding board and is awaiting a decision on the format and timeline of the multi-agency review.

South Wales Police said: "Tackling knife crime is a priority for South Wales Police and we will always respond to concerns about someone carrying a knife."